tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post6701050598308877238..comments2023-09-16T04:08:25.750-07:00Comments on Butler's Birds: Bro, Do You Even Pish???Laurence Butlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-20756467252473957042014-08-13T17:55:41.141-07:002014-08-13T17:55:41.141-07:00I sure hope birding is life extending! "Emo t...I sure hope birding is life extending! "Emo type" birders, as I mentioned, don't seem to actually exist--at any rate I've never seen them. Emo people/kids are like a softer, sissier version of Goth kids from the 90s. They wear lots of make up, put purple or blue in their hair and wear lots of tight black clothing with metal studs. They worship Edgar Allan Poe's worst work and try to be brooding, moody, morbid, and deep all the team, frustrated that they can't properly bemoan that they are, in fact, raised comfortably in white suburbia. <br /><br />Thanks for reading through Kathie and taking the time to comment. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and your candor. Good birding to ya this weekend!Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-19176513458808962332014-08-13T17:52:14.461-07:002014-08-13T17:52:14.461-07:00Bro!
Hey Chris,
Thanks for commenting. I always ...Bro!<br /><br />Hey Chris,<br /><br />Thanks for commenting. I always appreciate your thoughtful responses and am glad the posts are keeping up to snuff. <br />Texas Texas...I can't say enough about it. I cannot think of any place in North America where I would rather be, in mid May, than the southeast Texas coast. Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-47315743021572080322014-08-13T11:51:31.818-07:002014-08-13T11:51:31.818-07:00Laurence, I didn't know whether to laugh, cry,...Laurence, I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or be shocked by this piece! I decided to laugh and disagree! But first I have a question: What is an "emo" type? I don't know. As for being a female birder, I know plenty of women birders and my birding mentor was a woman. I met her when I was 16 years old and knew her for the rest of her life. She lived to be 103, so maybe we can sell birding as a Life extending activity?<br /><br />I know that most of this was done tongue in cheek and I love the pics and the clever ways you created species names for these "bros". My take in the end is to get anyone involved who will truly care about the birds and conservation and I do not care what their age or gender is or sexual orientation is! Though I like racking up the Life Birds as much as anyone, I have no use for those who's sole purpose it to achieve birder fame. That being said, most birders I know care as much about the birds as their Life Lists and I hope it stays that way. In this point I agree with you: Getting people to care about the birds will lead them to conservation and THAT is a mission we can all embrace!<br /><br />As for the comment about woman having a greater presence on the internet, I think it is just a desire to share and to connect. I started my blog because I wanted to share my passion. I am thankful for the people I have met because of it, both male and female of all ages, including you!Kathie Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10377224759599266209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-24888718815733645802014-08-13T11:50:02.450-07:002014-08-13T11:50:02.450-07:00Laurence, this is a top notch post as has been you...Laurence, this is a top notch post as has been your past work over the last couple months. I don't always respond but I have read them and also have really noticed your fantastic pics, writing(always always always funny and uniquely your own) and the topics perfect. I couldn't help but think of my New England trip this summer and laugh about the East Coast birder. You nailed the stereotype perfectly. We were laughing at the pics. The clothes...the stance....seriously, coming from Arizona as a birder and observing an East Coast birder was a trip! Your pics are again always great but these last posts with your birds have been stunners! Thanks for the laughs and interesting reads:) I'm REALLY fascinated by that recent Texas trip:)Rohrerbothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136631378931478644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-12721579303928634972014-08-12T06:21:20.573-07:002014-08-12T06:21:20.573-07:00I got no beef with hunters, nor with cigarette sin...I got no beef with hunters, nor with cigarette singles when I find them on the ground (wait...no!). Lock and Dam 14 especially needs a few Bros. They will make birding far less pretentious and give Bald Eagles far more unrequited love than perhaps any other demographic.Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-41244685519869190132014-08-12T06:19:09.653-07:002014-08-12T06:19:09.653-07:00Bro!...this is a very important idea, a game chang...Bro!...this is a very important idea, a game changer!Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-39951710996403298372014-08-12T05:42:41.001-07:002014-08-12T05:42:41.001-07:00I want to know where you got that cigarette... The...I want to know where you got that cigarette... They don't sell one-packs! <br /><br />Can you send "the Bro" to Lock and Dam 14 to deal with the pretentious Bald Eagle douchebags we get every late winter/early Spring?<br /><br />I would agree with earlier commenters - hunters are huge conservationists, for the most part. They understand the need for wide open spaces, and they grasp the importance of sustainability. And, so they hunt. Game birds and over-populated deer, etc. Doesn't bother me. Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04992333612634825161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-23751111879678303882014-08-12T05:20:19.293-07:002014-08-12T05:20:19.293-07:00I think the next logical step is to petition the R...I think the next logical step is to petition the Red Hot Chili Peppers or Dave Matthews Band to write a song about birds or just put a picture of a bird on a record cover and your mission will pretty much complete itself.Greg M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17589804703249828778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-36921126916889667862014-08-11T13:31:04.903-07:002014-08-11T13:31:04.903-07:00I love my Snowies by the boatload (boats never mak...I love my Snowies by the boatload (boats never make it into Phoenix though).<br /><br />You're right, certainly getting the kiddos involved is a gold mine, and I too am contemplating a birding club come spring time. For the hunters, I think you're right that they are willing and able conservationists. In conjunction though, lots of hunters tend to be scattered and antisocial, even more than birders. The more's the better of course, but to really change the inertia I think we need larger, more socially central groups as well.<br /><br />Thanks for your insight.Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-43004141601796619792014-08-11T12:54:18.210-07:002014-08-11T12:54:18.210-07:00Clever and humorous post, Laurence, but better yet...Clever and humorous post, Laurence, but better yet is the heart of it which is improving conservation via the recruitment of more birders. Was this brain-child borne while enduring a mind-numbing teacher inservice?<br /><br />Though I'm in the land of Broticus Slovenicus, I can't relate much to the Bro demographic. There are two groups that I feel would have a high ROI in the recruitment efforts. The first is hunters which may seem ironic at a superficial glance. This is where I get my birding roots. Now I get the thrill of the hunt any day and anywhere; it's not confined to just some short season or geographical locale. Many of these people are wildlife lovers already and are already the biggest movers and shakers in the conservation department -- Pheasants Forever, Ducks Unlimited, etc -- the dudes and dudettes buy some major real estate each year for habitat that benefits a plethora of wildlife. Birding would not be a tough sell to this demographic. And stuff would get done.<br /><br />The second group I speak of is not so specific but is ultimately the key -- children. Plant the seeds young and watch them (and the birds) grow. I'm thinking of starting a birding club at school. You in, Bro?<br /><br />And boatloads of Snowy Owls also help the whole recruitment effort in general. Josh Wallestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12547530391406974019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-28805740785583167292014-08-11T06:19:27.479-07:002014-08-11T06:19:27.479-07:00It's a tough trade off, having to interact wit...It's a tough trade off, having to interact with more people in the (perhaps) vain hope for the propagation of more birds. <br />I can't say I'm enthusiastic about rubbing shoulders with Birding Bros., but it would make for livelier arguments on the birding forums eh?Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-29557787957622620832014-08-11T05:41:28.185-07:002014-08-11T05:41:28.185-07:00I'm at a loss for words here. Being the "...I'm at a loss for words here. Being the "misanthropic" asshole that I am, I hesitate to endorse anything that will result in me having to interact with more people. That said, I appreciate your enthusiasm and ingenuity. thismachinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08072033666703203316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-35761223248727352192014-08-10T15:45:29.229-07:002014-08-10T15:45:29.229-07:00Good god...if you could harness the Fantasy Baseba...Good god...if you could harness the Fantasy Baseball and Fantasy Football crowds...eBird would have more data than their databases could handle. <br /><br />The next demographic to target? Goth chicks.Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-868264411848733962014-08-10T15:31:45.970-07:002014-08-10T15:31:45.970-07:00"Bros before Hoopoes," they'll say. ..."Bros before Hoopoes," they'll say. But if we can push past the initial reluctance, surely we can harness the bros for good. I'd also like to see more jocks enlisted. If only they would rattle off population decline statistics, optimal habitat requirements, and feral cat numbers like they do batting averages and free throw percentages, they'd become a powerful force for conservation indeed! Thanks for shedding light on these two elusive species.Nicholas Martenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04430793036041198643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-18792281216389883932014-08-10T12:42:17.871-07:002014-08-10T12:42:17.871-07:00Definitely the more people know and the more activ...Definitely the more people know and the more active they are, the greater awareness and conservation there can be. If the people with political power are still predominantly white males, then I'd still take that as a need to get more white males (the constituency) into the field as well the other demographics, and some of those subsets are much more reachable/realistic than others. <br /><br />Regional birding groups are good. Any place with some organization and unity can help awareness and maintain some social and political capital. So many birders are just also so bad at associating and socializing!<br /><br />I don't know--probably an older female. I'm not sure I'd recognize it anyhow.Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-64084149639002018272014-08-09T18:16:33.005-07:002014-08-09T18:16:33.005-07:00Your point that "as a pursuit in itself is le...Your point that "as a pursuit in itself is less pressing than general conservation, since the gender make up of conservationists doesn't affect the conservation directly" holds true only because most of the people in political power are white males. I would imagine in order for sound conservation policy, practices, and awareness to take place, that the participation in wildlife viewing, wildlife experiences, etc. needs to be diverse. People of color; from rural, urban, and suburban regions; including those with family roots in Jamestown/Plymouth and those newly arrived from other countries all need to appreciate nature/conservation in order for it to happen. <br /><br />It's both daunting and frustrating. It can feel as though you're outside looking in. Becoming a part of a regional birding cluster helps, and there have been both men and women who have been marvelously fantastic about being friendly and inclusive, but as I think about it - many of those I've met first in a professional capacity rather than in the (literal) field. And while that's been helpful for me, it's not the typical experience for most birders.<br /><br />I wouldn't say that there's an Official Birding Boys' Club, but it's daunting enough when one is a new birder to contend with any semblance of a gender barrier while trying to stick with a hobby that has a slow learning curve.<br /><br />I wonder if the odds would be greater for you to be hit on by a male birder or a female birder?<br /><br />Truth. Owls keep one going in birding/life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-13700434409861372372014-08-09T17:38:31.944-07:002014-08-09T17:38:31.944-07:00It probably is male-dominated at all the different...It probably is male-dominated at all the different levels, except maybe for feeder watching/backyard birding in suburban or urban areas. For sake of female birders, I hope the ratios even out, but that as a pursuit in itself is less pressing than general conservation, since the gender make up of conservationists doesn't affect the conservation directly. <br /><br />That being said, the more the better. Bros as a group are easy to typify and target. I can't claim much knowledge when it comes to female birders, or females in general, or generals in female. <br />Is it daunting to be in the minority because of the condescension that comes with it? A certain element of that will never go away. There are too many birders with attitudes and egos, regardless of their actual skill level, and they'll turn up their nose or patronize anyone they don't know by reputation (I experience this often enough as well, and I'm conspicuously male). I hope you put them in their place when the opportunity presents itself. <br /><br />I too, have never been hit on while birding. I should put more effort into my appearance. If the Bros come and start bugging you Kathleen, I apologize. Think of the Burrowing Owls!!Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-90241966555969341002014-08-09T16:28:17.939-07:002014-08-09T16:28:17.939-07:00In all seriousness, to even out the sex ratios pre...In all seriousness, to even out the sex ratios present in birding, I'd focus more on introducing and retaining more females than introducing males to lure females. My impression regarding north-east birders is that it's male dominated regardless of the level of real-world birding. There appears to be a bimodal range: older-classic birders and the younger-tech-savvy birders (the general dichotomy mentioned in both the Esquire and the NYTimes articles).<br /><br />I think that online, the sex-ratio is much closer to 50:50, suggesting that either women are generally more active online then men (I believe more women use facebook for longer periods than men), or that due to the scarcity of females in the field, women take to the internet in order to feel less alone in this field.<br /><br />I may have previously mentioned this, but it's daunting to be a female birder. Unless birding with a male, when I encounter men in the field, it is much more likely I will be ignored, or assumed to be an utter novice who is utterly out of her depth. Men are more likely to stop and explain the basics of birding to me. In conversation with other female birders, my interactions are not unusual.<br /><br />I do see other females out birding. They are typically alone. (It's like seeing a really rare-bird, we stop and stare, do a double-take, and very frequently strike up a conversation!) Or they are women who appear to be doing it as a shared pursuit with their significant other who appears more invested in it.<br /><br />I've not been hit on yet while birding, but that I assume is only a matter of time. Especially if birding is on the rise with the emo types and bros. <br /><br />AZ post #2 is up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-43238602845616388602014-08-09T16:01:22.183-07:002014-08-09T16:01:22.183-07:00You're right Kathleen, especially in the upper...You're right Kathleen, especially in the upper echelons and in the more competitive birding world, males tend to outnumber the females. It doesn't seem like the themes of Vogue of Good Housekeeping would cover birding--you also won't find birding articles in many man-centric magazines. At any rate your point is well said and well taken.<br />I'd also point out that, at least to my eyes, female birders outnumber males in the sort of semi-birding or more casual birding genres. I run into more males out birding in the middle of nowhere, but the facebook groups and bird groups that principally center around birding in city parks and at feeders are dominated by females. So part of the question is, how do we get these more timid circles to expand into actual wild/needing-to-be-conserved areas?<br />The solution? Get lots of hunky Bros out birding. Their musk and mating calls would attract many more female eh eh? The logic is irrefutable.<br /><br />The Esquire article seems to be erroneous on all fronts: statistically, logically, sociologically...I really get the impression that the author (who displays considerable ignorance about birding in general when he tries to make direct references, e.g. breeding Piping Plovers in FL) thought this was more of a throw away piece that would be read by non-birders, which is why every birder who's read the article is annoyed by it. <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by. I'm looking forward to your AZ posts.Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-39500858327332524462014-08-09T15:16:26.409-07:002014-08-09T15:16:26.409-07:00I'm going to offer the counterargument that th...I'm going to offer the counterargument that there are already too many males interested in birding. Consider the fact you will not find an article regarding birding if you browse Vogue or Good Housekeeping. I recognize the relationship between interest in birding and interest in conservation, but it's already daunting enough as a female birder in a predominantly male-filled field!<br /><br />Specifically regarding the Esquire article, the guy needs to revisit statistics or not intentionally skew his argument. "Of the 46.7 million people who observed wild birds, 88% did so around their homes and 38% on trips a mile or more from home." That's 41 million feeder watchers and 17 million who have traveled 1.0+ miles from home to watch a bird at least once during 2011*. (That's 5% of Americans who do more than feeder watch.)<br /><br />The statistics provided also note that "Participation [in in some form of wildlife-related recreation] is up 3 percent from five years earlier. The increase was primarily among those who fished and hunted. " Logically that seems to imply from 2006 to 2011, there was less than 3% increased interest in birding across the "retiree birders, the hardcore listers, the young upstarts, the field biologists, the feeder watchers," and let's not forget, the students birding for credit. Assuming this is a typical increase, at the start of birding-in-mainstream-media. Does he think there are 50-million retirees with one-foot in the grave who make up the American birding population?<br /><br />(This may have fired me up enough to go finish my Arizona posts).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-39622394095728365632014-08-09T14:05:34.848-07:002014-08-09T14:05:34.848-07:00The is serious business Pat! Well ok, maybe not so...The is serious business Pat! Well ok, maybe not so much...<br />Collaborators were Broseph Scarborbro and Brody McBrodeLaurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-60596553761788590122014-08-09T13:05:10.964-07:002014-08-09T13:05:10.964-07:00This cracks me up! Who were your collaborators?
This cracks me up! Who were your collaborators?<br />Pat Goltzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02034093879556142742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-13737233871704042642014-08-09T00:50:50.892-07:002014-08-09T00:50:50.892-07:00Cheers Jake,
Hang in there and keep Bro-ing it up!...Cheers Jake,<br />Hang in there and keep Bro-ing it up! And while you're at it, the whole D.C. area would probably benefit from a little more Bro in most of its various undertakings. The competitive angle works right? I mean, most birders feel its weight on their subconscious, but there's something in the blood of the Bros...<br />Thanks for commenting with that affirmation. Of course the piece is predominantly sardonic, but I'm glad to hear of some positive developments, even on the individual/personal level nonetheless. <br />If you don't mind, I'm going to transpose your comment to the websiteLaurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-39859433812960207802014-08-09T00:49:35.651-07:002014-08-09T00:49:35.651-07:00Dude! Loved the piece on bros and birding, if only...Dude! Loved the piece on bros and birding, if only because (while I wouldn't consider myself a bro, per se) I do often feel like the only birder in the DC area under the age of 50. I've actually used the competitive angle to get a friend of mine (definite bro) at least somewhat into birding. He can't ID much yet but is keeping a life list like there's a beer-flavored prize or something. More importantly, he's started thinking about the conservation side of things. It's pretty awesome. Great piece, thanks for sharing!Jake Hallhttps://www.facebook.com/jacob.s.hallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5791077723521794200.post-77321063472690139832014-08-09T00:10:50.292-07:002014-08-09T00:10:50.292-07:00Perhaps the highest compliment (or not???) I could...Perhaps the highest compliment (or not???) I could hope to solicit from you Mr. Raconteur. Laurence Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14766876797454283812noreply@blogger.com